Why is it so hard to get on-theme links?
February 27, 2008
In my Search Engine Myths Exposed report, as well as in various blog posts I've written in the past, I make the statement that it's much more difficult to get links into your site from other sites in the same general subject area. This is especially true for niche sites like "bonsai trees" or "Florida deep sea fishing" — any site that has a limited number of similarly themed sites in Google.
Despite making that statement, I've never actually gone into detail regarding why it's so difficult to get links from webmasters who own niche sites related to your own. It's important to understand these reasons, and I think examining them will bring some enlightenment into one of the problems with search engines today.
You see, before the enlightened days where lots of links were the primary factor for ranking a web site, people would link out to each other just because it made sense to do so. There were some competition issues, sure, but it was a rare web site that did not have a "related links" page to help you out in case their own site failed to provide the information you were looking for.
Google changed all that when links started becoming important for ranking. Once links mattered in the ranking of a page, webmasters were much less likely to share links with other sites. You see, before link-based search engine algorithms, linking to someone else didn't help them in their competition against you for ranking in the search engines. Since search engines were then based only on the relevance of the page to the search terms, you could link out to whoever you want and still rank just fine.
When Google came on the scene with their famed PageRank algorithm, a link to somebody else's site in the same niche became a de facto vote against your own site. This caused webmasters to be much stingier, requiring a link back from the other site before they would link out to them. Thus the world of commercial reciprocal linking was born, and it prospered for some years.
Google finally realized that they had to do something about this, and all but shut down a person's ability to rank well with reciprocal links alone. Now Google wants to see "one-way" links (or at least links they think are "one-way"). Webmasters are now even less likely to link to you, because they know a reciprocal link does them no good at all, but what they need are one-way links.
Keep in mind that I'm talking about the webmasters who are familiar with search engine optimization here. That includes a large number of commercial web sites whose business lives or dies on how well they rank. The majority of search terms are dominated by such sites these days.
Are you seeing how things went from bad to worse here? First, it was easy to get links because webmasters naturally linked out to related sites as a courtesy to their visitors. Then things got harder when Google implemented a link-based algorithm, and you could only get links from webmasters who you were willing to link back to reciprocally. Finally, when Google started devaluing reciprocal links, it was like pulling teeth to get other sites to link to you from the same niche, and you often ended up having to pay for those links.
In the past you could send emails to the top 100 sites in your niche requesting that they link to your site because it would be beneficial to their visitors, and if your site had great content the majority would give you a link. Try that today, though, and watch how fast your domain lands on the SPAM lists because those same webmasters report you for "spamming" them with link requests.
So what's a webmaster in need of ranking to do? Get off-theme links!
You see, if you're wanting to rank for "Florida deep sea fishing", you're not in competition with the guy who's trying to rank for "bonsai trees" — and you both know it. Because of that, there's much less reluctance to link. Compound that with my earlier case studies on how powerful off-theme links are (which was also demonstrated in my Search Engine Myths Exposed report), and you've got a winning combination! Exchange links properly (by using an automated service like 3WayLinks.net) and watch your rankings rise!
Yes, off-theme links work brilliantly to rank you in Google, and they're far easier to acquire. I think, though, that it's a rather sad side effect of link-algorithms that they have create inhibitions about linking to quality sites in the same niche. In the old days people linked to each other just because it made sense to do so, and much of that has been lost in the "links are king" days of Google.
Don't get me wrong, Google has vastly improved the quality and relevance of search results over prior search engines like AltaVista (remember them?), but in doing so, has it caused as much harm as it has good? I mean, search for anything even vaguely commercial in Google and you'll see the top results dominated by sites which have obviously used link manipulation to get to the top.
"Link popularity" is really a myth — what you see in the search results is the result of strategic manipulation engineered to improve the sites' rank. There's no true "popularity" or "democracy" about it. In order for our businesses to thrive, we have to fight fire with fire and do the same.
I have no problem with automating my link-building to rank my own sites, but wouldn't it be nice if the search engines rewarded quality over SEO know-how?
Please leave your thoughts and comments below.
Comments
89 Responses to “Why is it so hard to get on-theme links?”
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Jonathan Leger has been earning his living online full-time since the fall of 2004. He regularly posts advice about search engine optimization (his current passion), AdSense and Internet Marketing. 
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I would be much more comfortable with Google's rules regarding linking/link-buying if they had a legitimate "human" ranking component that counted for the majority of their ranking scheme. But it's quite clear that that's not the case. Until they address this need, I'm forced to agree with you that the only way to get ranked credibly…no matter how rock-solid your quality…is to engage in at least SOME degree of link manipulation. I regret that conclusion…but I don't see how we have any choice. We'll all know if and when things change and become better…but any search at all lets one know that things just don't work the way they should right now.
I have found that link building distracts me from actual site content building, but unfortunately link building is necessary.
And also a review of any search results quickly show that site content is definitely not the prime determining rank factor.
Sadie
Great insights on link building, Jon!
With the popularity of Web 2.0, I sense a moment towards social bookmarking as yet another element that the majors can use to rank a website. Although there could be exploitation from SEO knowledgeable webmasters, search engines might only considered evaluating and crediting IBL from the most popular social network websites such as a digg.com.
That's my two cents.
Really nice analysis of the situation we are in. So much of our work as marketers rests on getting links from articles, blog posts, forum posts and so on. All because search engines rely on links!
"Build a stadium they will come!"
If only!
alex
I know what you are saying about off topic / themed link working to help some sites rank higher. I know this for a fact because some of my clients competitors are on the first page and when i looked at there inbound links loads were not related to the industry. However they did have a lot of inbound link so this might be why they ranked high.
Myself I do not get off topic links, well not totally off topric as i think Google will get smarter and start to not count these as much.
Also the links I get are not direct competitors but still related. I.e. if it overseas property for sale like Egypr property for example I will simply link with complementary sites that will add value for both oif us like Egypt travel information and tour operators.
in my opinion this is the best and only way of linking, if it adds value for both sites visitors then do it, if you are just trying to game the search engines to rank higher and getting unrelated and stupid links then chances are your positions will not last………
Although generally true, I think that it does also depend on the niche. For example, in my niche I've seen a lot of linking both reciprocal as well as just because other people feel my site is a benefit to their visitors.
In my niche (spirituality), people are much less concerned about the competition and more concerned about just helping each other out, helping their visitors out, changing the world, etc.
Ultimately, if the content is good then the one-way links will follow anyways… so I focus first and foremost on providing good content that people want to naturally share.
My website is with Sitesell and they have what they call the value exchange. Its free and worth every penny for a newbie like me. After a couple days of looking at sites and sending emails with no replies I realized that this is just a directory for the big websites to gain more traffic. So I went back to blogging. I get good links and I have fun doing it without wasting my time. By the way Jonathan Sitesell doesn't support PHP on my site so I couldn't do 3way links
:0(
Following on from what Tom said, it's almost as if the search engines are now becoming parasites on the social news and bookmarking sites to provide truly representative rankings.
When Page Rank has become so obviously a busted flush we have no alternative but to play our hand with some under the table tricks.
Yes, it would be "Nice" if SE's were to actually reward quality.
In much the same way that the government should divert Billions of dollars each year from the Military to our schools so all the soccer moms don't have to hold bake sales.
It really reminds me in fact about how the US Tax system works. The people who created it (Legislators and lawyers) decided to create a system that scammed the poor in favor of those who understand things, like, um, themselves.
SEs are the same way… They absolutely reward the people who understand how to manipulate rankings, at the cost of not sending any traffic to people who don't know any SEO yet.
I guess the whole universe works that way, however… People who study hard to really master a particular subject are always going to be the ones who control it.
So I propose it's always, always, always going to be impossible for any Search Engine of any kind to actually reward quality.
There will always be someone who has studied harder to manipulate that system than the people who created it.
Chris Cade:
That will work for niches that aren't heavily commercial (though spirituality certainly has its commercial aspects–unfortunately), but just creating great content in niches that are very much commercial in nature will not reap great rankings — not for the small business anyway. There are simply too many people out there manipulating their rankings through link building. If you want to rank well in the commercial niches, you have to build links.
"I have no problem with automating my link-building to rank my own sites, but wouldn't it be nice if the search engines rewarded quality over SEO know-how?"
I believe that someday, all the search engines WILL be able to do this, and when they do, all the websites with great content will be rewarded, while all the rest will fall into the dust.
That's why it's SO important to build a QUALITY site now, while you can, and not be unduly persuaded by those who want to convince you to take another path…
Thank you so much for posting this enlightening update. Currently I am still getting decent rankings and visitors, and have only few mutually-exchanged links….(amazingly)!. I have had my site(s) up for years though, do mailings to my list, live RSS feeds, etc.
I've lagged greatly on my 'Megatags', with many pages having only one (or none other than "Title").
After reading this, I will get an automated link-exchange service, and am very grateful for learning of this. Who couldn't use higher rankings after all?
Sincere thanks for all,
Richard
Bob:
That's a nice thought, but meanwhile if you're focused solely on creating great content without building links, you better have another way to pay the rent! Because today Google won't be sending you much traffic.
Whilst I am a customer of Jon's 3 way links system, i do however think that irrelevant one way links to my sites just dont feel right.
For me the Internet has always been about linking relevant HTML pages and sites together. If i was to create a search engine i think that i would ignore links from 'bonsai tree' sites to 'florida fishing sites'.
Regardless of my comments above, the 3 way links system does seem to be having a good long term effect in uplifting my sites' placement in a number of the SEs.
I agree with Tom Choung above, the new link building for SEO power seems to be centered around gaming social bookmarking sites. I have seen some quite dramatic effects in boosting my sites positions in Google after being 'bookmarked'.
Wouldn't it be just as easy to reciprocate links but using 2 of your websites? i.e you get your inbound link from the site you want a link from and link to their site from a different site of yours.
That way both parties receive 'themed' inbound links.
Seems logical to me, so I must be missing something!!
~ Peter Tremayne
Just a thought.
In the past you would naturally follow the links from one site to another within the subject area that you had originally searched.
Today, you have to return to Google to see the next site in the listing. And what's on the search page? - Google Ads!
I wonder if there is any correlation between the reduction in site linking and Googles profits?
Paul
Peter:
It is logical, but in practice is difficult to manage — are they still linking to you? If so, who is and who isn't? How many links to you have? How many do you need?
That's where an automated solution comes in.
Jon as per usual you have hit the nail on the head. I have no problems with gathering one way links to get good ranks to my sites and have known for some time that this practice works well especially in google and if you have sites for the main purpose of making money from advertising or whatever then thats the only way to go.
I hear ya John and I always enjoy your posts so I hope you won't be offended if I offer this criticism.
I see you and a lot of others criticizing google for how they run their algorithm but I see very few people offering alternate and better ways for them to do it.
In my family we have a rule: if you complain about it, you fix it.
I think the same applies here.
I've had many sites banned from Google because I had too many reciprocal links :-O
sam:
There is a better way … but that's all I'm saying for now.
Jonathan:
But persistency and doggedness will pay off . I recently received a copyright infringement notice from a PR6 website and was surprised to learn that my content creator had indeed "borrowed" a paragraph from their site. I apologized and replaced the paragraph with my own creation and after seeing their high page rank, I offered them a 2-for link exchange. I had a PR2 site and a PR0 site and offered them 2 links in exchange for 1 link to my PR2 site. Surprisingly they agreed. (Both of my sites were similar topic sites for them.)
I agree that link building is very hard in today's search engine dominated atmosphere or webosphere as the case may be!
So is this an easy automated way to get links? lol - certainly not. But opportunities are still there if you look for them.
Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
-Krusher
Hi Jon,
Yes, I remember the old days where we had to rely heavily on
"link pages" to find what we wanted to find.
Some people had resource pages that were basically a niche-directory. Better than any search engine at that time!
And the page rank algorithm was implemented with exactly this
principle in mind. The more "recommendations" the better the site must be…
However, the PR-algorithm - at least in its original version - wanted
to simulate what they called the "random surfer" - meaning the probability of a surfer sooner or later landing on your page:
The more links the more likely somebody just surfing for fun would visit you.
This is why they gave more weight to links in larger fonts and bold or italics. It simply increases the liekelihood of a surfer clicking on it.
I know I can rank my sites well even with 100% off-topic links.
But if I interpret the random surfer idea right the probability of a visitor clicking on a link highly related to the topic of the page is far greater than clicking on a off-topic link.
This would at least support the idea that links that are related carry a little more weight than other links.
I would love to see a case study about that.
I still cannot let go the idea of related links - simply because
it makes too much sense and if I were to implement a ranking algorithm I would try to somehow measure relevance of links…
agree, agree, agree,
links matters, one way, any theme, blog, forum, article directory, any thing.
I am ranking for many terms having various topic links
Cheers
Jonathan… I agreed with you entirely when you told Bob that yes content is good, but what use is content alone when Google is so strongly driven by links.
My take on it is you have to split your time between quality content and links and there isn't really much of an escape from that except for automation. I personally worry that any one form of link will lose favour, so I gather many types to give a natural link profile and don't put all my eggs in one basket.
I agree that your competition might not want to link to you, but what about your non-competion in the same general catagory?
For instance, say you had a site on backyard waterfalls, and would reguest a link from backyard fountains, or backyard landscaping or backyard lighting, or backyard for children, etc. etc..?
Might that be considered by Google to be relevant?
I would like your opinion on this suggestion.
Sharon
It is plain and simple; linking whether "On-Theme" or "Off-Theme" is a critical component to successfully building top page rank in today's SEO marketing environment.
The ability to establish link quality and quantity has changed vastly over the past decade and most dramatically over the past few years.
Jonathan,
As ever you speak a lot of sense. There are millions of websites with great content but no visitors simply because they do not know how to play the SEO game. This is a great shame!
Conversely, many sites that contain questionable content get seen but probably not for long when surfers realise the quality of content is not great.
In an ideal world a system would exist that would ensure websites get ranked for the quality of their content. Now there's a thought!
Great post, thought provoking as ever.
CJ
Another thought provoking article, keep them coming Jon!
I think I am at the stage where I am totally confused with the whole linking business. I run an e-commerce site and a few niche blog/sites and whereas the e-commerce site is doing well in the SERP's for my main keywords, the niche sites are not. Granted, the e-commerce site has been up and running a few months more than the other sites. Now, I seem to be reading conflicting articles and because of this am reciprocally linking like there is no tomorrow (for all the sites). Is this right or wrong or is it a matter of preference? Obviously this is not my only avenue of link building as I have had great success with article writing and also social bookmarking. One thing that does seem to work to very good effect is social bookmarking every page of every site I have to about 30 social bookmarking sites. This seems especially helpful for new pages as it has the effect of getting them indexed within a couple of hours. Does anybody else do this? I also bookmark every article I submit, so I could end up bookmarking the same article 6-7 times but on different article sites (hence 6-7 different url's in the bookmarking sites).
So after reading this, do you think I should carry on with the reciprocals, social bookmarking everything, etc?
Although I agree with you, Jon, at the same time I believe that none of this would be necessary if a person could brand himself in such a way as to encourage people to want to connect to him without him having to ask for their links.
It's all about meeting the needs of the people in ways that the competition is not…
Reciprocal linking does have some value. With the right link partners, it can produce some traffic, but it's time consuming for low yield.
3WL is a great supplement to your overall traffic building efforts, but article marketing will give you an extended viral effect. If you do it right, article marketing can increase your ranking for almost any keyword for which it's reasonable for you to rank. The one-two punch is always better.
There are a lot of opinions on the best linking strategy, but you can't argue that incoming links with the right link text, from related sites or not, move your keywords on up in the rankings.
It works the way Google is playing today, so that is what I will do.
Keep them coming Jonathan.
Ted
Ok Jon I guess your getting at your 3waylinks site again….So what do you think about Google raising eyebrows to a site that links out to a bunch of non related, garbage adsense sites that provide no true resource to a visitor on the site that links out….
Say the site theme is adware….why in the world would anyone think that a great resource would be "cure headaches, dog training, yeast infection….why would these be great to link to since they have no apparent value to the sites visitors?…and plus on top of all that the site is .html and the resource page is in php…would it pass a hand edit if you so happen to get your site ranked really high for adware? No, it wouldn't and this really did happen….
A friend of mine got on first page for adware…and he had your 3 way links on his site…and what do you know couple of weeks later…he's gone…deindexed not even ranking for the domain….
Not saying that it was the 3waylinks that did it but it definitely would make me wonder considering their are hand edits going on alot and considering it just doesn't make sense to link out to a bunch of garbage no related sites….why not make 3waylinks link out to related sites not just anything and everything under the sun
And when you rank really high for some major keywords your a target for Matt Cutts and his spam team…..
Build it and they will come…
This is to "Luke - Search Engine Marketing"
Luke, you say;
"Myself I do not get off topic links, well not totally off topric as i think Google will get smarter and start to not count these as much."
I read another of J. Legers posts http://www.jonathanleger.com/position-your-business-for-today-and-tomorrow/
where he makes a VERY valid point. "It's beside the point that I completely disagree with those who claim that Google will one day ignore off-theme links. The point is that those folks are encouraging people not to do what will help their bottom line today, because they think it won't work tomorrow. Meanwhile, their competition is out-ranking them in Google by getting off-theme links."
If you can truly figure out what google is going to do next i suggest that you package this knowledge of yours and sell it as you would make a killing!
Let me play the devils advocate for a moment. let's say that google will always count off theme links, do you want to give your competition that much of a head start?
Basically, if it works then do it. If its doesn't then dont. It is quite simple really.
Anyway, Mr Leger, I dont subscribe to many blogs but yours is one I eagerly await new posts. You are a legend, keep it up
Nice analysis Jon. Google has really messed up natural search. And you're right. Why would I want to give someone in my own niche a one-way link? It doesn't make sense to give any help to my competitors in the niche.
Reciprocal links don't help much these days. What's left is linking systems like yours - if you can find them and finding unrelated links.
Bruce
Hi!!
I have found 2 sites that rank number one, and they have no links in, the others site in secound and 3rd place have about 400 links.
Also the 2 sites have not enough contenet.
Google has changed somthing and I do not what, I hope anyone could find out soon.
Thanks for your analysis
I agree with you Jon that many sites today are there because of an artificial, systematic manipulation of the site's link popularity. Who can blame them? There's a lot of money to be made in search.
While they may be easier to get, the trouble with off-theme links is that the site may drop in rankings as Google adjusts its algorithm to look at site relevancy. This will likely be a long time coming since it is really hard to refine the search engine's algorithm to review each backlink. It will come suddenly, much like the other major updates did which caused a stir in the industry.
Another approach is to find related sites and not necessarily an exact match in terms of the niche. For example, a site selling wedding gowns may approach sites for wedding caterers, wedding photographers, wedding favors, flowers, gifts, and jewelry. Although not on-target for the theme, these sites would be very relevant to a person browsing stores or informational sites about weddings.
–Anthony
Thanks for the post, Jon… always interesting. But for laughs and giggles, I just have to put in my 2 cents for the nay sayers in this crowd. I openly admit that I am a 3wl member and I love the results, no doubt about it… but here's what I'm getting at. If you are afraid of what Google MIGHT do, aka- slam you for off-theme links in the future- what exactly is your alternative to ranking well? It just seems silly to think that you wouldn't do what is working for fear of Almighty Google changing its algorythym, so you guys must have some other system that's working that might help the rest of us out, right? I am certainly curious.
I have a generic reply that I send to anyone who requests a link or a link exchange … in over two years, I have only had one person follow up to my reply …
I ask two questions … what page on my site has relevant content to your site that you would like a link on … and what page on any of your sites has relevant content that would be appropriate to put a link to my site on …
Of course, that is assuming in their link request that they even told me which one of my sites they were requesting a link on (usually they are just spamming my email address from whois searches) …
Two years … only one person who spammed me with a link request ever followed through and actually answered my question so they could get a link …
Greg
I don't know if this has been said here already but I have always been of the mind that Google would always move away from link popularity as the main influence on the power of a site or page for the simple fact that they do not own that part of the algorithm - Stanford owns it!
Another great post Jon! You are a legend, keep it up ! Learn a lot of knowledge from your blog.
Jon,
I have to agree that the link-building part of website development is a necessary distraction from the content creation efforts. But with the positions taken by Google regarding inbound links, what other choice does an Internet Marketer have than to "manipulate" incoming links to rank well? It appears we must all play by the rules set by the almighty Google, even if those rules encourage a creative response.
By the way, the 3WayLinks service is a great link building strategy and has already made a difference in my rankings and volume - keep those great ideas coming!
Brad
Hi Jon,
A very good post!
As always, I enjoy your comments and obvious knowledge
about SEO and linking techniques. I plan to take one of ny
sites and experiment with 3-way lnking.
All the best,
Laurie
I definitely agree that on-theme links are harder to get these days.
Who would link out to their competition anyway if doing so provides 1 way link to them?
Great post Jon as always. Keep them coming.
I am just starting out in this business. I had a clearcut plan when I first began, but the further I go, the more I don't know. I guess the question is to link or not to link. Wouldn't the best way to go is to put a whole bunch of websites up and link them all together? How many links does it take to get a rank in the search engines anyway.
What is your view on getting links that all come from a Links page? I have always heard that the value of a link into you site is a % of the number of links on a page sending you the link. So a "links" page is pretty much useless for back links.
In 3WayLinks the links will all come from such pages. So this makes me a bit nervous about using the service. I would like to hear what others think about this.
SEO MINDSET
"quote"but here's what I'm getting at. If you are afraid of what Google MIGHT do, aka- slam you for off-theme links in the future- what exactly is your alternative to ranking well? It just seems silly to think that you wouldn't do what is working for fear of Almighty Google changing its algorythym, so you guys must have some other system that's working that might help the rest of us out, right? I am certainly curious."
No, I am definitely not afraid of what Google might do..but I do not want on my site some php script that will link my site out to bunches of 1/2 garbage sites that have no apparent value at all to my users in my niche…and when you start to rank high for major keywords…not smaller niches…your competition targets you…and will possibly report your site and then your site will get reviewed by by G…and then you have to look at it like…If my site got reviewed manually by Google would it pass the test or get dropped back in the serps or edited out…these are real possibilities and it has happened to people I know…
and as far as "so you guys must have some other system that's working that might help the rest of us out, right? I am certainly curious."
Yes I have a network of hundreds of websites that are all on different servers, registration names all uniquely owned…I then feed the network what Google wants…high quality, keyword rich, unique content daily…then I link to my resources of my choice anytime and all the time…their is nothing to worry about because I have nothing on my site and only have one way links coming into my site which I cannot theoretically get penalized for because they are one way links which anyone can do…so if one way links would hurt a site then it would be an all out war on your competition…..but the key is I do not have anything sketchy on my site….which my competition could utilize for a report and then get hand edited….
Jon
I started to write a detailed reply to this post, as a 3WL customer, i have a stake in this issue
however, i found this blog post http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/google-hell/
it puts some perspective on the arguments
i still want to write to you about this issue, but will post that on 3WL forum
Nicholas
Thanks for another great post Jon.. links are the very foundation of the internet, it is how you find and get found. However to be honest, links on similarly themed sites delivered much more traffic and visitors than those links on sites with other themes.
Interesting post Jonathan. Linking has to be the number one most confusing aspect of anything to do with SEO. There are so many conflicting articles and advice that you wouldn't know who or what to believe!
Interesting post, Jon. For now, I will continue to try to go for themed links. I still find that blog commenting works extremely well. It isn't that hard to find good related sites, although it does eat up my time.
I agree with Bob, build a quality site now and you won't regret it in the future.
It is only a matter of time before Google will also look at your visitor statistics I believe.
gr,
Remco
Jon,
Great post, it is nearly impossible to get on theme links anymore. Programs such as 3WL is a super tool for off theme stuff!
George
I read about this change and wondered how this would affect my own website. So I have chosen my links wisley.
Your article has given me enlightenment even further to this as I continue to grow.
Thank you!
Hi Jonathan,
I love your posts. Always full of great content.
After reading your Report I advised a friend client ( unpaid unfortunatley) regarding his link building efforts and since he started getting links from high PR sites using blogging - his Google Ranking jumped up from page 3 to A Top page placement yesterday on page 1 !!!
You should have seen his face !
and this is for an extremely competitive financial 3 phrase keyword.
Many thanks for your in depth reports and passing your incredible experience to us.
Hamant
Hello There,
Just want some thoughtful feedback on possible future backlink inflation. It seems that there is an on going "arms race" in the quest for backlinks. Backlinks work, therefore diligent site owners seek to acquire as many as possible.
Can you envision a soon to be future where backlinks are devalued as a result of "back link inflation"?
Sort of thinking out loudly…
What do you think?
Sam
Sam:
I do believe that at some point something is going to have to change. I don't see how back links would not play a major role in any successful algo, but yes, something will need to change.
Jon,
I too think it's unfortunate that quality doesn't dominate over SEO know-how when it comes to ranking a site.
I'm going to be shifting to your automated system because you rock and I don't have the time to solicit even off-niche links.
Thanks again for great quality stuff.
Jeff
Great Post! Here is a tip for everyone out there. Don't necessarily ignore pages with nofollow tags. The page has a high PR post anyway.
Why?
I have found that both Yahoo and MSN still respect the link. Plus if you go to your Google Webmaster Tools account and check your external links section, it will still show the link. Regardless of the nofollow tag.
So is any link a good link? Hmmmm…
Jon:
Yep, yep, I agree….Shout it out from the roofs. Get Links! Get Links! Get Links! And don't look to concentrate on on-theme links alone.
It's sad but true that you have to sometimes manipulate your link-building processes to get higher SERPs.
Taylor:
Yep even though some pages have nofollow tags you can do well to post on them anyways. Don't try and concentrate on search engine rankings alone, but if the site is a high pagerank site and gets good traffic then you'll will garner some website traffic from persons clicking on your link.
~~J.J.
Just my two cents…
As I read through the comments to this post and comments to prior posts related to links on this blog I keep hearing about how you should not worry about what Google might do in the future.
If you have 2 or 3 websites this may not be a concern for you but if you have many sites, 100s maybe, you would be very foolish to ignore what Google might do next.
So what will Google do next? I will tell you, Google will take whatever action is necessary to insure the quality of their results.
When a visitor enters a search string, Google will do everything within their power, which is considerable, to display only the most relevant results for that particular search even if there are millions of related web pages.
I agree with Jon that Google may have shot themselves in the foot with the unintended effect that PageRank has had on natural linking. When people found that they could, with little effort rank junk sites it all started to go down hill.
I have one of my sites registered in 3WL as a test and the results are that it has made no difference so far. I have heard lots or references to "off theme" links. I have not heard a single mention of JUNK. I have noticed that about 90% of the 175 sites linking to me are not only "off theme" they are “PURE UNADULTERATED JUNK”. They would be "off theme" to anything!
I do not see Jon's position as being much different than that of Google, as long as the majority of sites in the network are JUNK, the speed at which everything craters will be in direct proportion to 3WL's success. What I mean is that if 3WL sends lots of it's member sites to the top of the SERPS, those sites being mostly JUNK, G will be forced to take action.
If anyone here believes that G cannot find every site within this or any linking network then I have some oceanfront property in Arizona that I could let you have at a very good price.
As someone in this thread has already mentioned, if one of your competitors complains to G that you are doing something suspicious and a human checks out your site, they may crawl every site that is linking to or from your site and continue the process from site to site until they have every site in the entire network.
Many SEOs have pointed out that Google will not penalize your site for bad incoming links but I am not sure that the same will hold true if G determines that you are participating in a link scheme, in which case your domain name will be flagged as being that of a spammer. It is very cold in Search Engine Siberia…
I have nothing but respect for Jon and his abilities but with that said Jon is not completely unbiased when it comes to this topic. With thousands of subscribers the monthly income from 3WL must be breathtaking to behold.
I think that many of Jon's members are just too lazy to do what it takes to create useful websites or quality links. They complain about "the Almighty Google" or that they "just do not have time to build proper links" but the reality is that they are looking for a magic bullet where none exists.
If you really want to be successful do what Jon does and get up every morning and ask yourself what can I do today that is profitable and is truly useful to others and then do whatever it takes to get it done.
No excuses…
I agree with this totally. I welcome the day that it changes to make the playing field more easy for some of us. Thanks again Jonathan. Troy
I have to agree with Taylor Scrubs above about foolishly paying heed to no follow tags. I'm not sure about the Yahoo/MSN following aspect of it as I have never checked but I do know for a fact that google still counts no follows as backlinks.
I am not sure what google hopes to accomplish, because an automated algorithm is going to be cracked by people, there's just no way they can get the algorithm smart enough to outsmart people. Without human interaction in how sites are ranked, SEO smart webmasters will continue to break the system. I don't know what the answer is, because I am aware of how difficult it would be to hire the necessary staff to surf sites and create the "human" touch for rankings. Oh well, on we go building off site, one way links!!!
I have long been visiting your blog and everytime learn something really useful. Your opinions are of confidence because they based on practical experiments rather than on nude theory. "Get off-theme links!" - at first glance sounds absurd, but I am convinced that all your advice are really working tips!
I wonder if Yahoo gives better ranking to theme-related sites or if google created a mess for other search engines too
I also have a sneaking suspicion that no-follow tags do pass a little link juice. And, even if the link juice is minimal, it could also bring you some traffic.
Very interesting. I've often thought about this, the problem is obviously how do you right an algorithm to tell whether an articles in good or bad, it must be pretty much impossible. Now social voting, if that was tied in some how to all resolts, things might start to change. Then again, then you've got all the problems of people organizing voting groups, so i think it's always going to be an endless struggle lol
Ok just thinking aloud here
Jayen
very informative post.thanks for this great insight in link building.
As usual a very clear and informative article Jonathan - I'm already a member of 3waylinks and have seen some very impressive results - so I firmly believe you know what you're talking about :o)
Mike
Great post Jon, as we all know proper anchor text is crucial here, especially with the types of links you're talking aobut in this post.
Sometime sit's difficult ot ge ton-theme links because not a lot of web "masters" really know what they're doing, they don't do any niche or keyword research, and they're just doing on-page SEO on impulse and whim, without any thought for type-in traffic.
Point being, sometimes its hard to find properly themed sites because of how people are building their sites…. improperly.
Thanks,
Dan
Hey Jonathan,
It should be interesting to see what the search engines come up with next to appraise the value of a blog or web site in the ranking process. After links, where could they possibly go from there? Sometimes I feel like a dog jumping through hoops. It seems that there is a saturation point for every marketing technique, especially those related to SEO and ranking.
After reading your report on search engine myths, I realised that all links count towards ranking. Since Google keeps on changing the rules all the time, the best way to ensure you have all bases covered is to build both niche related and non-niche related links.
Luc
Hi Jon,
Just wanted to say thanks for sharing. I always look forward to your email and updates etc.
Others have commented on the use of nofollow linking and how Google still credit them (or not) - I'm confused. Are they worth the effort or not?
Would like to know what you think?
Thanks,
Dermot
Hello Jon,
Interested in your thoughts on this topic..
Quoted:
"The main problem with link pages is that everyone links out of them, but no one links to them.
Many "links" pages are not even included in google's indexed because of lack of internal link support of the main site."
-extracted from Webmasterworld
http://www.webmasterworld.com/link_development/3590283.htm
Sam
I completely agree with your comments - thanks again for a great post.
this reciphrocal vs one-way link really confused me. You are right about the quality of the "top ten" list of search engines' (google) result.
Being the top doesn't make a site have better quality than the rest.
Perhaps we should use other search engine. The one that really reflect the search result. I wonder what that might be.
Thank you for shedding light on this topic. I am going to do my best to follow your advice, as I have found the process of obtaining relevant links to be too time-consuming the way I had been doing it.
Link building is extremely time consuming! I do find that linking with off theme sites does seem to help my rank for terms, but it does not seem to help my PR.
I love this post.
I really love the posts that Jonathan makes as they are so full of valuable information and one can't fault his being honest. Great work buddy!
Hi jon,
great info on link building. A good mixtur brings stability now and into the uncertain future.
keep it going
Joe
"I have no problem with automating my link-building to rank my own sites, but wouldn't it be nice if the search engines rewarded quality over SEO know-how?" Boy, that about sums up the whole Internet story. There does not seem to be any correlation between quality and ranking. I see advertisements with spelling errors and grammar errors right in the top ten on search results. I guess its just how much you want to spend to get there. Good article. Thanks, Fred
WOW!! I just looked at your video on the Instant Article Web 2.0 version and thought it looked amazing!! Hope it wan't be too expensive for me. Looking forward to the release.
Not sure this is where I should have posted this comment but I couldn't find anywhere else on your site to do so. Maybe it's just me but I think your blog/comment section is a bit hard to find. Couldn't seem to navigate your site too well.
I just saw your video on IAW Pro. All I can say is WOW!!! The entire article is built for you automatically. We will need to go through it to correct some grammar and make it a bit more unique.. but… WOW!!!
And I thought IAW 2.2 was great. This is FANTASTIC!! Will save me a LOT of time and give me a lot more diversity in my articles.
Will we be able to upgrade from IAW 2.2 or will this be a totally new program?
Again.. WOW!!! You've done it again Jonathan. With "spring training" just about to end, you have hit one "out of the park" with IAW Pro.
WOW! seems to be the word. I'm also going to use TERRIFIC! wholesome bit of kit I'd say. So so simple, you've done well to pick this one out of the bag Jonathan. Guess we may need deep pockets for this one. Oh, must agree with Marthas above comment about Blog/comment and navigation.
Nice work Jonathan.
Really disappointed it isn't possible to use deep links to sub-domains. Technically I can't see any reason for this, and I think this would be a valuable addition to your service.
Good post….On theme, contextual links with anchor text in the body text or close to the body are indeed hard to get. They are not impossible, however. This strategy is extraordinarily time consuming so unless a site owner has 3-5 hours per day to devote to it or has a budget to hire a full time linkbuilder, you may get the google needle to move for your terms quicker with social bookmarking, quality directories, article syndication, blog comments, continuously adding quality content to your site (see below) and other social media link strategies. Response rate is low pursuing contextual links from topically relevant pages (about 5% to 10%.) If you do purse this, you need to build out a nice "how to"/"all about" content page as many link acquisition targets won't link to a commercial page but will consider linking to an informational type page. Best way to get their attention is to give them a product gift or e-book that's relevant to what they offer.