Is SEO dead?
February 25, 2009
I was reading a thread at a big webmaster forum yesterday which made the claim that "SEO is dead." Now, it's hard to say whether or not the original poster was being serious or sarcastic, but he referenced some other news he'd been reading on a few authority sites that made the "dead" claim.
The notion was that, because of the prevalence of Web 2.0 community sites, the idea of needing to optimize for any of the engines was going away — and fast. The idea was also put forth by another poster that, because of the huge number of content management systems that are already setup to be "search engine friendly", the need to have any additional knowledge to rank well was quickly diminishing. Just search for "seo is dead" in Google and you'll find many people expressing the same ideas.
My answer to all this? Poppycock.
First, while it is true that there are many CMS programs that are search engine friendly out of the box, on-page factors matter so little to ranking (at least in Google) that even if the on-page playing field was leveled, it would make little difference in the current search engine results.
Second, SEO is about far more than just what's on the page. The way you analyze what keywords are worth optimizing for, the way you write the content around those keywords, and the links you get to the pages that you want to rank for those keywords all have a large role to play in how much traffic you get from the search engines — and that analysis takes specialized knowledge. Anyone can learn to do it, but it does have to be learned.
Third, and most importantly, Web 2.0 is nice, and sites that revolve around that kind of community are huge traffic mongers (e.g. YouTube), but there will always be a need for full-text indexing of the web.
Seriously, does anyone go to YouTube to find information on important topics like cancer treatments or solar power or mortgage refinancing? Uh, no. Does anyone go to Facebook or MySpace or Friendster for any of those important searches? Hardly. As for Twitter… how much serious information can you put into 140 characters?
The only real Web 2.0 contender I've seen in those areas is Wikipedia. However, I have never seen a "how to" article in Wikipedia. I've never seen a review of a commercial product there, either — just two of the many very large markets that info-sites like Wikipedia have no share in.
To understand why many people will never rely on Web 2.0 properties for important queries, hop over to Yahoo Answers and read some of the responses to the questions asked there. Many answers are completely devoid of referenced facts. Some are barely legible. Others are clearly written by teenagers — or people who have the mentality of teenagers anyway. That's not the kind of resource folks will turn to for serious inquiries.
No, people will still go to the big search engines which, hopefully, will rank pages from sites that demonstrate some kind of authority in such matters.
This whole "SEO is dead" foolery reminds me of the popular idea going around some years ago that "print is dead." The thought was that because computers are so commonplace now, people would stop buying books. After all, it's so much easier to search through information on a computer, and it's faster and cheaper to produce books on a computer, so people would in time stop reading physical books.
That was more than 20 years ago. Have people stopped reading books? Let's see. In 2007 Barnes & Noble sold $4.68 billion in books. Borders sold $3.41 billion. Amazon, $4.63 billion. According to Reuters Entertainment, the UK publishes 206,000 new titles per year. The USA publishes 172,000 per year. So much for print being dead, right?
Web 2.0 sites are good sources of traffic, and are not to be dismissed when planning your site's traffic-generation campaigns, especially if you are in a niche that caters to the kind of content readily found on such sites. But to drop all efforts at ranking in the search engines because Web 2.0 sites are popular would be a serious mistake. I daresay that most of the people who are serious about buying aren't the kind of folks who would turn to such sites for advice or direction. They'll go to the search engines — and our sites will be waiting for them.
It really seems to me that the folks crying "SEO is dead" are the folks who have been unwilling or unable to do what it takes to rank well in the search engines. They want SEO to die because they think it will be better for them. They feel that Google and the other big engines will eventually include social media sites into their search algorithms, and then all those optimized sites will drop out of the rankings.
But guess what? SEOs have been using social media sites to improve their ranking for years! And if Google ever does include social media ratings and rankings in their algorithm, how long do you think it will take the SEO crowd to start finding ways to improve their social media rankings and improve their search engine results? Yup, SEO may change a bit, but it will still be alive and well.
But hey, I hope folks take this "SEO is dead" nonsense seriously and drop out of the competition. That makes more room for us to step in and get their traffic, right?
Please post your thoughts in a comment below.
Comments
156 Responses to “Is SEO dead?”
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Jonathan Leger has been earning his living online full-time since the fall of 2004. He regularly posts advice about search engine optimization (his current passion), AdSense and Internet Marketing. He is the creator of a suite of popular software tools, including: Jonathan L Leger 
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Thanks Jon for your article..
I would think common sense tells you that as long as there is search engines there will be a way to optimize for them. Google and yahoo will always be around. They will evolve but so will the SEO tactics needed to rank well in them.
I agree with you Jonathan, SEO won't be dead as long as there is Google. The algorithm is harder than what we can imagine.
I think the point of these posts is in general correct. Why worry about SEO when I can get more stable traffic from web2.0 techniques. I think it is just a matter of time before the search engines change their ranking factors to take into consideration the impact of social networks. Besides it will help the search engines finally cull out all the SEO strategies that really manipulate the rankings and possibly damage their quality standing with their users.
I think it's just a "controversial statement" made to gain attention. There are a lot of other instances such as Adsense is dead, etc. in the past out there which did gain a lot of it. Don't think SEO will go away anytime soon.
Jon,
I agree with you. Content that provides solutions to problems will always be in demand by the "serious" buyer or consumer on the Internet.
Many may use social media sites to connect with people on a surface level. Like saying, "Hi, how are you?" To really get to know someone or have a meaningful exchange, you need a deeper conversation that takes time and dialog.
That is what a website can do with meaningful content. Create the deeper conversation that builds trust and a relationship that can lead to sales and service.
The Internet is a reader's library; like American Express you don't have to leave home without it.
SEO is as important as ever it was. Even more important to optimise your VRE before promoting to Web 20 properties in fact.
Add this rumour to the long list of "X is dead" linkbait.
Alex Newell
Jon,
You crack me up!
I love your common sense approach to the internet and making money online. As I learn more and more about SEO, SEM, internet marketing, programming, wordpress, software tools, etc, etc.
i find my bulls**t detector getting better and better and I have to say you are one of the few people I continue to follow and listen too.
Web 2.0 has it's place, but you are right when you say SEO is not dead and yes hope the SERP's don't get stupid and stop listing authority sites.
I'm agree with all thing you're telling about SEO.
I think SEO will never dissapear and will be always necessary to be there applying all SEO concepts in your websites.
For me SEO is the first thing everybody has to learn about.
"I hope folks take this "SEO is dead" nonsense seriously and drop out of the competition. That makes more room for us to step in and get their traffic, right?" I agree with you!
Good post John!
Anne Ahira
Jonathan:
I completely agree that search engines are highly oriented to providing answers to people's searches. That means they will continue to work hard to improve their intelligence in terms of what dish up to a customer's search engine inquiry. You are going to dump a search engine if it just serve up references to web pages that do not relate or provide quality content. The rules still stand that you can enhance what you have written in order to get credit for your work. But it boils down that you must provide some information worth absorbing by the viewer, Fail this and you will be dropped like a rock, whether or not a search engine "recommends" your website due to high search engine placement. I agree the 2.0 web factors are not to be ignored. But you must have a reason to stay on the page!
Keep up the great postings and products you provide!
Regards,
Dexter
I think a lot of people "wish" the likes of Google will become less important and I have seen these posts myself about SEO being dead.
If you throw the baby out with the bathwater, as you say Jonathan, its a serious mistake. I'm wondering how long it will take for people to start hailing SEO again … like they are now with article marketing after that had been buried and seen as too time consuming with not enough ROI not that long ago.
People should actually hope that SEO remains and work it in conjunction with their web 2.0 efforts.
Trish
[quote]I think it is just a matter of time before the search engines change their ranking factors to take into consideration the impact of social networks. Besides it will help the search engines finally cull out all the SEO strategies that really manipulate the rankings and possibly damage their quality standing with their users.[/quote]
Teddy, I appreciate what you're saying, but the second the search engines include social media ratings and rankings into their search algorithms, the SEO guys will be all over it finding ways to improve their ratings and rankings at those social media sites! Guess what? SEO still lives.
I really don't think it is but I can see where some people would think so with all the SEO programs that's for sale today.
I smile and hope there are lots more who believe SEO is dead and may they convert many more to their foolish beliefs.The silver lining in the cloud is that will leave we who still believe in SEO on the front pages of the search engines
The SEO is dead crowd has been shouting these claims for several years now. SEO is stronger and more popular and mainstream than ever.
I agree totally. I do 2 things, create great content using "Instant Article Wizard Pro" which I love and use every day. Submit blog posts and write articles to get back links to my sites. Also, I try to optimize some of my pages for Google only.
I'm also using John's Answer Analyst which is a great complementry tool to IAWP!
Great article Jonathon. Companies will still need us folks with the tribal knowledge to get their sites to rank. It does take more work and strategy but companies will pay for it now and in the future.
Until now SEO still work for me. and i got increase my traffic everyday except saturday and sunday :).
In fact, all the web 20 sites are just a plus for those who use seo in their traffic strategy.
I am happy that all these web 20 pop up all the time and rank high because they help me to get better rankings, even quicker than before.
Seo is here for long.
Franck
The guy that said that seo is dead is a moron, nough said.
Good points Jon,
Sam
I think it's absolutely silly to think that SEO is dead, but like you, I hope other marketers start believing it!
YES! SEO is completely and utterly dead. No one should pay it any attention at all anymore…
(But privately, since Google still controls over a 70% share of all online searches, I will continue to optimize my sites to take advantage of that little fact)
I think the readers of your blog are smart enough not to let the ramblings of some lunatic distract them from what works, Jon. Let the forum poster of that drivel ignore it at this own peril.
Mike
Good post Jon
And I agree with you, what a load of old poppycock.
Ok yea, the web 2.0 sites do ok, but aint they short lived.
I have found the good old fashioned article stands the test of time.
I have actually been thinking of this over the last week or so
because it has recently applied to me.
I put out some articles about 3 weeks ago linking back to
a site and also put up 2 videos on you tube.
Within 2 or 3 days the videos were on page one of google, but no sign of the site.
As of today, 3 weeks later, the videos have shot their bolt and dissappeared, but for the keywords in the articles, the site is ranking 7 & 8 on page one of google.
It is well established that social traffic is low value traffic in terms of monetization.
If you DON'T want to make any money from your blog, then concentrate on the social networks and forget about SEO.
Users coming from search are clickers and buyers because they are looking for answers.
I think you have made a valid point in your article jon, and I agree, with the internet community constantly growing it is still very much a mindset for the majority of the population to use the search engines when looking for relevant information.
Although these web 2.0 sites can be a great resource of information sometimes the easiest way to find these 2.0 sites in the first place is by going to the search engines,
If what this person is saying happens to be correct I think it will be some time before we see the likes of Google and Yahoo roll over and move away from providing a quality search engine.
Personally my first port of call when looking for quality content is the search engines, then I will look to these 2.0 sites to narrow down my query if Google doesn't come up with the goods.
I think it would be very unwise to not optimize your sites or even content for SEO.
I agree Jon, poppycock. Some people will make up anything to generate interest in their business.
If your market is American teenagers then these social networks should presumably interest you
Won't we remember them fondly in the future as we now remember chat rooms and cb radio.
I agree with Jon. Google still remains the biggest source of traffic. Web 2.0 sites are all well and good, but people browsing MySpace or watching videos on Youtube, or maybe even sifting through Propeller or StumbleUpon are not necessarily looking to buy, or are looking for a specific piece of information. People literally 'Stumple upon' things (excuse the pun) so are not in 'buy mode'.
When people search Google it is because they are looking for an answer, or are looking to buy something. This is the best possible kind of traffic. Why wouldn't people want that. All traffic is good, but targeted traffic is what you should strive for.
Google offers targeted traffic…. and buyers….. and Google = SEO.
Hence, SEO is NOT dead.
Andy
I make a handsome living off that dead old Web [1.0?]
The guys that are claiming that social sites are diminishing the power of links are not entirely wrong, but knowing where and how to insert keywords and anchor text backlinks is crucial and it works just fine for my clients.
I am with you, I hope they all think that the seo is dead. What a bunch of clowns. I think they do this to start a conversation, which is fine. All of these cms systems still need some tweaking even out of the box and you have to link back, so I agree with you Jon, let them think it is dead, that is just good for us.
Steve
Hopefully the people who listen to the SEO is dead message are also the people who do market research based on a couple of blog posts. Leaves a lot of niche markets and clients available to the rest of us.
I think it is absurd to think that SEO is defunct. The use of search engines to find information is increasing. What is likely to change is how search engines filter results, since there will always be people figuring out how to game them. It doesn't take a technical genius to understand the underlying principle on which search engines function: If you search for information on a topic, you want actual sites with quality information to show up in your search, not keyword-loaded gibberish blogs or sites shilling a product but offering little in the way of useful information. The ways that search engines filter for quality (and unique) contents will increase in reliability and accuracy, I'm sure. I concur that lot of Web 2.0 contents is borderline coherent text-chat, though some forums really do offer useful information, and some videos on video-sharing sites offer topnotch information. Usenet is also still often very useful for finding information.
SEO will die as soon as people are done searching for things. And Web 2.0 will become meaningless the second people stop having relationships.
The reality is that both have their place. Your business may favor one over the other, but BOTH should be included in a comprehensive online marketing strategy.
What's not really being talked about is how the line between the two is blurring more and more each day. We all know that Google is the number 1 search engine. But, do you know what the 2nd one is?
Hint: It's NOT Yahoo. The 2nd most popular search engine is YouTube! http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/39777/113/
And it's not as if YouTube only delivers its videos on YouTube. As you well know, YouTube videos are placed all throughout the internet on blogs, websites, etc etc. And those pages are getting ranked in the SEs and pulling traffic.
Also, Google is now incorporating a social aspect to their rankings. If you have the Google toolbar (I think it's the google toolbar) you'll see an upwards pointing arrow (read: yea!) and an "X" (read: nay!) next to each search result. That's Google's way of asking you if you think the result is good or not. Sort of like an "ask the audience" type feedback. I find it hard to imagine that Google wouldn't factor this data into their ranking algo.
All in all, there's no 100% right way, no 100% wrong way. There's only the way that works. The way that works for you. The way that works for your audience. That way that works for your objectives.
I agree you can have all the tools in the world. Ie SEO CMS system, if you don't know how ot use them it will do you little good.
Know your market, learn the keywords, get your links!
Oh one more thing… if you use Wordpress I think All in one SEO is plain awesome if you use it correctly - Wordpress is loved by Google it seems
Dear Jonathan Leger
I'm so happy to read your Blog, and happily enough I have put myself on your mailing list, some long time ago, and I did not regret.
Very often you need to read somebody who is writing about things as they are, and not about what they are supposed to be. Thank you for that. That is gold to me. Thank you, Jonathan!
Jon
I have to disagree.
Of course SEO is dead.
I thought everybody knew - ever since Google introduced the psychic algorithm, it knows what your page is about before you've even up uploaded it.!
(I wonder how long it takes for tha tto become "a fact" !?)
Paul
John,
A agree completely, SEO will always be there.
I was just reading up on your mini site case study and am strongly considering using 3 way links. I see you have a blog and many pages along with the site, how often did you add content to the blog or site?
Do you think this is a major part of the reason your site has been ranking so well, along with 3 way links?
i have about 10 sites and would like to join now i just want to follow the exact method you found success with.
Thanks,
Sean
When you say "on-page factors matter so little to ranking" you are over-looking the importance for niche keywords. I got several websites on niche subjects into Google top 3 positions last year just using good onpage text plus the 12 links that I can muster from my own sites.
What worries me is how an increasing number of topics are dominated by authority sites, government sites etc. With the way that Google ranks us this is inevitable, but must in end up with a fossilisation of the SERPS to the stage where they become uselss. I guess that as in every other area of life this will continue until the status quo becomes so useless that it gets turned over by a 'revolution'. Any ideas what comes next?
SEO will stay as long as we’ll have search engines and websites will present content. Social Bookmaking sites will have to diversity as some clearly show the prevalence of the teenage mentality out there that not all of us want to cater to. All seems to go in phases, from AdSense to AdWords to SEO to Social Bookmarking. It’s evident that if one pays too much attention to all the ideas and all the discussions on daily basis one can’t ever get done anything to begin with, namely add content. Personally I feel best approach is to shut the door to all input, implement what one charted out for himself, track the results and then turn on the influx of ideas again, but only after some time. Following it all daily leads to overload of information, confusion and sour thoughts. Best to focus on something finite on day-to-day basis and not get constantly distracted.
Good article. I use the fact that most answers on yahoo are poor to increase my seo and links.
Jon,
I'm totally down with you that SEO will always have a place no matter how it needs to evolve.
My personal feeling is that the biggest advantage to using the web 2.0 sites has always gone to the ones that ALREADY have a large following and not to those trying to rank and garner one.
Jeff
Thanks for the article, Jon. While I dismiss out of hand the idea that SEO is dead, I can't help but fall back on the pillars of what I offer as an SEO expert: Traffic and Conversion. These pillars keep from ever becoming irrelevant since both can always be improved and are inextricably tied to revenue.
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I totally agree, Jonathan. I think seo will be around for a long time. I do believe that social bookmarking and the like is changing the seo landscape, but certainly not erradicating it!
Daniel Tetreault.
Well, we'll have to wait and see what happens. I've only ever used search engines to find my information, I have never used Article directories, and only found out about them when people said they were a good way of getting backlinks etc, otheriwse I'd never come across them, never heard of craigslist, and never use it to this day as it doesn't strike me as very user friendly. So search engines are the only way to go for information for me. So I target those. I feel that social bookmarking sites will diminish in popularity over time, and perhaps there'll be more but less people on them. Youtube style sites will plateau. Time scale? Probably the next two to five years.
Hi Jon,
I have read about the same somewhere and was quite concern. Thanks for the reassurance that all the SEO I did for my site have not been in vain after all.
Lian
Hi Jon,
I did a very comprehensive class room course last year with Bruce Clay. The message I really took from that course was that SEO is far from dead, its just changing (as you have said). Universal and Local Search is becoming more and more the norm and its a matter adapting to give the SE's and the people asking the SE's the questions to their problems, the answers they need in our quality content. Adding to this, we obviously want to get the right keyword links to our deep pages and home page. We still want to optimize on page, and why not also tap into Web 2.0.
I really do appreciate hearing from you Jon. When I check my emails, yours are often the ones I open first, and I am never disappointed.
Cheers,
Dallas
With so many untruths told today, it does not surprise me that people are going to want others to believe SEO is dead. The more who believe it and act on it, (or rather do not) the more the others (like all of us), will reap the benefits!
Learning how to 'get it right' takes time, and many can't be bothered. Its just another part of who makes it to the top.
Thanks Jon, I am using the SEO skills I have learned from you and others like you, and it works for me. I am not going to stop.
Geoff
Jon - your last sentence is exactly what I was thinking while reading your entire post. IF people want to believe that SEO isn't necessary anymore, then…well…to each his own, I suppose.
More room at the top!
Respectfully,
Allen Graves
No, SEO is not dead. I bet people with sites built in Flash wish it was. One site I optimized back in 2003 and I'm still #3 in Google. People came to me asking for links and they still do.
Well I have been in the SEO world since Oct 99 and I have to say my latest site was the easiest I ever got ranked for its primary search term and yes I talking about Google here.
Let the facts speak for themselves:
Results 1 - 10 of about 15,600,000
And guess what, I didn't do any serious SEO or even mild SEO for that matter and furthermore this site has only been up there aboiut a month.
Now the secret, well there isn't one, it's just a simple wordpress blog.
So is SEO dead, well for me the jury is definetely out!
Just my two penneth worth
Cheers
Dave
Hi Jon,
I agree with your view but feel its best to utilize both methods. Web 2.0 helps with backlink building, cheaper site traffic, PR, quick indexing, social proof and to help with those looking for stuff to do as they procrastinate
For now temporary high rankings can be attained using web 2.0 properties and this has been used a lot with product launches and it works.
So I believe its smart to use SEO as well as Web 2.0/ social media as long long it also still produces results. Concetrating on just one method and ignoring what else is working may not be great. I use both methods to best benefit from both.
A great post thanks Jon
Anytime you have code, which is based on rules, you'll have ways to manipulate those rules in your search rankings. Great article with some very thought out points.
Jonathan I have to agree with you. I have always been very comfortable with your logic and deductive reasoning and in this instance as always you do not disappoint! I do enjoy your techno too by the way! Digression apart, what really is web 2.0? Let's look at Squidoo for an example of that. What Squidoo calls a "lens" is basically a web page. The concept is good but in essence it is a community with themed links. Themed links are undoubtedly good for drawing people to your patch in the forest but you are still basically building content for, um, the web site. This holds true for Squidoo, YouTube and many others. There are undoubtedly considerable benefits if you get it right and can siphon the traffic to a site that you personally are monetising but what we are now talking about is - oh yes - SEO! In this case, for your own site. Or did you just do a Web 2.0 host a massive favour along the way? Hmmm… you have it pretty spot on in my book
SEO is a lot like trying to sell your car - wouldn't you primp and polish it to get the best price and for it to sell (get traffic)? Even if a lot of people were saying SEO was dead it would be the same as saying there is no God; but hey, I'll just say a little prayer just in case I'm wrong, to make sure I don't miss out!
I use blogs, CMS systems, PHP and HTML websites and even with the SEO built into CMS and Blogs, the HTML system out perform the CMS systems and blogs from and SEO standpoint and speed even with the performance caching and plugins either built-in or added in. People want speed and I believe search engines do as well.
Shhhhh, let them think it is dead!!! That will make it easier for the rest of us to move up the serps!
I agree with whole heartedly on this jonathan, except for the fact about print material. I do believe their will always be bookstores like Barnes and Noble (brick & mortar) but I also believe that the age of the newspaper will die off in the next ten to twenty years or sooner, especially with the junk that is delivered in the New York Times!!
I'm a full-time marketer and I believe in many workable things that appear useless to the others who are just reading and hearing things from various doubtful sources.
I agree that it is absurd to think that seo is dead but the web 2.0 sites are useful in getting traffic for new websites since some of the SEs take time to index them.
When I launch new websites (about 4/month) I submit relevant articles to the web 2.0 sites to get instant sites. Never failed.
The talks that you can't sell much things on web 2.0 are made by those who are not seriously into internet marketing. I promote various downloadable digital products on the web 2.0 sites.
I visited video sites to watch funny stuffs when I need relax. While relaxing at such sites I do study many videos promoting digital products in order for me to improve my own videos. I had uploaded videos to Metacafe and various other leading video sites but not YouTube because I believe that there are too much "entertaining" videos there and my 10-secs are not much of an attraction there compared to laughing babies, piano-playing cats, etc.
Forums are excellent places to promote my stuffs while participating in intelligent discussions about topics I’m familiar with (adsense, clickbank, blogging, etc). My favorite are DP, WF and WebProWorld where I’m a regular and popular known as “ainmohd”. My signatures on the forums is a part of my seo strategies and I make it a point to post useful and “friendly” comments instead of making short irrelevant ones.
My long term objective is to implement much of the seo whitehat (a bit of grey will be alright) techniques and my short-term objective is to post many articles on the web 2.0.
Conclusion: SEO is still very much alive despite too much domination by G and the web 2.0 are not to be rubbished.
I think that SEO will always need to evolve as long as the big G evovle it's algoritms.
Using the web 2.0 sites is a good complement.
Ove
Seo isn't dead…..it has changed over the last couple of years though.
For example, "one way backlinks" used to be probably the biggest factor in climbing to the top of the big three -Google, Yahoo and MSN. Not anymore, not today.
LSI has been around in the backgraound for a few years, but I firmly believe it is now probably the most important thing in SEO. I can make a properly formated post on our blog for a new keyword and be on the first page of Google within hours (sometimes minutes). We have very few incoming oneway links, maybe 20, but our blog is highly optimized…title, internal linking, tags, etc, and…. we have one heck of a huge ping list!
Just my 2 cents..
Michael Rytter
"Just Google My Name!"
Thanx for the article
I have great interest on SEO
But i can think that the best way to do it just have GREAT ARTICLE and GREAT BACKLINK…
I hope the SEO not really DEAD
Taufan
Indonesia
Thanks Jon for your article, a nice blog post!
Let them continue to spout off SEO is dead!!! People that don't want to do what it takes to rank in SERP's will easily be swayed which means less competition.
Quote Jonathan: "It really seems to me that the folks crying "SEO is dead" are the folks who have been unwilling or unable to do what it takes to rank well in the search engines."
Quote John: "I think it's just a "controversial statement" made to gain attention."
I think you're both right
Some wannabe Gurus use this kind of thing to get attention and then some less knowledgeable people read it and sadly take it to be true and others just plain use it as an excuse to why they aren't having success (normally when they've hardly tired).
Like you said Jon, when someone really wants to find info/buy a product on a specific subject, they are far more likely to use a SE that can offer them targeted results to what they are looking for.
Information Social Media sites like Digg etc are great to casually browse to see what's new, but you hardly have much targeted commercial intent when you use them.
Like others have said, both have there place, but i don't see either replacing the other, they're totally different animals.
Great post Jon as usual
Jayen
Don't think to much about SEO, content first…
Hope Not !!! What would I do, then?
Seriously, It's an old strategy that seems to work again and again. Obviously, the author of the article has achieved his goal: Controversy to generate thousands of links to his site (Well, not from Jonathan, hehe).
Good article. I'm with you on SEO. I do everything I can to optimize my sites, especially for Google. You never know from day to day what Google is looking at. There is one thing I wish someone would clear up. what is the limit to keywords in a meta tag? I can't tell you how many times I've seen different answers for this question. I've seen no limit, 20, I've seen don't go over so many characters. Any help would be appreciated.
SEO will never be dead because people want their information relevant, specific, and timely. Search engines like Google will enact all the measures possible to give their searchers what they want, and SEO will be a component.
I agree with you John. It's as if synonymously saying that Google is dead when someone says SEO is dead. It's totally preposterous.
I don't believe that SEO will go away at any time in our lifetimes. There may be variations to what we have to do to maintain our SE positions, but that only means that SEO strategies may be varied a bit, not that it will become dead in any manner or form.
Thanks for your point of view.
Barry
It is interesting that Wikipedia has very little information on products, I had never thought of that.
Thanks for Another Great Post
Rick
"All of these cms systems still need some tweaking even out of the box and you have to link back"
Tell me about it, I was working with one CMS today not only was it difficult to work with but difficult to even set up properly.
I agree. If every site served the same purpose or delivered the same kind of content, I would be be more inclined to believe that SEO could die.
However, like you mentioned, how-tos, articles, and research documents fill a different need than do social networking type stuff.
Great post Jon!
Matt
Long live SEO and keep that good content coming…….and focus on helping show those future clients that you are in the business of solving their problems.
"From today, painting is dead!" - Paul Delaroche, one of the foremost history painters of his time, on seeing the Daguerreotype (early photograph).
And that was 150 years ago. There's not much new under the sun.
Tony
I think the people who say SEO is dead may be referring to those keywords that are so full of competitors that it is almost impossible to get rankings. That would make sense. How does the little guy overcome the big guys?
Otherwise, saying SEO is dead is the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. The amount of searches I still do in Google to find information is probably a ridiculous amount. I just need to go around and ask all my friends how they find their information on the Internet and they will all say Google!
SEO isn't dead - it's just getting more complex
In my opinion seo would never be dead. Yes the algorithm of search engines are getting smarter for crappy websites and hence filtering them from their search results. If you have goo quality content, well structured website, and some good quality backlinks, you can still rank for some competitive terms.
I totally disagree with SEP being dead. I have seen and even bought some of those out of the box programs and such with no luck. I wasnt until I realized that, what I like to call, old school SEO works for me.
I just launched my site about 6 months ago or so and it already gets good search engine traffic and its a PR2. This was all done by on page seo, keyword research, some articles, and directory submission.
Thanks
Yes it's dead. Just like "Internet Marketing" and "Email" and "Web 2.0" and "Affiliate Marketing". Heck I've even read reports that say so.
Ha ha - good one JL.
Welcome to the Age of Aristocratic SEO. Wonderful article! Long live SEO, search engines, and the masters who control the Top 10 results. Resistance is futile because your eyes are being controlled by the elite few.
SEO is dead?
Hearing that claim makes me laugh, especially after reading your post above Jon.
I seriously second your thoughts that these people who claimed that SEO is dead is either not ranking well in the search engines or they simply don't want to take the steps to rank well.
And hey, Google just became the number 1 accessed site in the world!
Cheers!
Leanie Belle
if SEO is dying should i cancel my appearance at the upcoming Search Engine Strategies (SES) in New York in March. If SEO were dead i couldn't even do some shameless self-promotion like this. Seriously, for those that know me, you will realize this is not a serious self-promotion post bec who really gives a hoot that i'm on a panel. bottom line, SEO is not dying. might be boring but still dominates even if it isn't so web 2.000ey.
My Google traffic say SEO is not dead. Some times is a little crazy but it's not dead.
Jon,
You know, as well as I - and many others - that this… "(insert whatever name here) is DEAD!" headline is just that - a headline. Heh, or maybe a DEADline - LOL! It's just a device that sneaky people started using to create attention. I may be wrong but i think Michel Fortin may have started all this a couple of years ago.
SEO is NOT dead, nor is long copy or short copy or Adwords or Adsense.
I'll tell you what IS dead… the EFFECT that people are having by telling us all that something IS dead.
Regards
Gary Simpson
Good, sensible stuff as always, Jon. Thanks. I have just about had enough of these 'death' announcements. It is a waste of time to pay attention to them. Just get on with it and continue to provide good, quality content.
Poppycock is right. I don't think getting every jot and tittle on an individual webpage is as critical as is used to be, but it certainly can't hurt to be as thorough as possible (as anyone who has been burned by a "bad" Wordpress theme will attest to).
I read a funny comment just yesterday. I'll paraphrase. Spiders (Google, etc.) can be just as impatient as a website visitor. If the page loads slowly, or the navifation is unclear, the spider may give up and move to a friendlier neighborhood. It was priceless.
Hi Jon,
Although I do agree with you, I think that in 5 years time you will read this post and cringe as search engines do die more and more.
B
Hi Jonathan
I tend to agree with you. The need for the SEO's is not going to go
away. Many people who are not directly involved in internet marketing but spend time on the internet looking for various things will still continue to go to search engines it is the first place anyone goes to find anything they want.
Michelle Jayes
Hi Jon,
If you look for some product and want a serious review, most of the time all you get is a bunch of squido lenses, hubpages etc. , all with the same sales pitch BUT no serious review at all.
So I would rather say that social media and blogs are going to have a hard time. With an exception for Twitter.
JP
Very good common sense post John.
Rather than SEO being 'dead' - it's more like people are getting a good grip on how to achieve good SEO results.
But like always, the people who 'do', and not the people that 'know how to', will be the ones that come out in front.
'That makes more room for us to step in and get their traffic, right?' >>
That' exactly what i wanted to say Jon.
I agree, SEO is not dead. Even with the best cms you still need to target the good keywords with great content and without incoming links you are going nowhere.
Hi Jon
If Seo was dead, how would google rank any page, we would all be number 1?
Hi Jon,
I started out doing SEO and web development over 10 years ago and back then it was straight forward SEO - keywords, title, description, on page content - and bingo you shot to the second page of Google in about a week
I still do the basics as a matter of habit, so I don't know if I'd still be successful without doing real SEO
what is obvious now is that you need your target keywords in the text link that points to your site - and those links need to be on websites that also have their keywords in text links pointing to their sites
what is also obvious is that Google is watching - and as soon as something becomes common knowledge that it will get Google traffic, Google will try and squash it
word is out that Google has just downgraded the value of all links from web 2.0 sites - a well touted "get traffic" technique - people who used links from social networking sites are reporting big drops in Google traffic
I noticed the same thing a couple of years ago with article marketing - Google just seemed to downgrade the bio box link value - but a site I monitor that uses article marketing as the sole source of traffic generation now has plummeting alexa traffic stats - and they're very busy churning out and submitting articles
Google is a moving target - something always comes to light that will get traffic from them - until Google spoils the party
different things work on Yahoo and MSN but who cares!
Yes Jon I'm particularly behind you on the point about the legibility of posts on Yahoo answers or any other medium for that matter, that encourages teenagers, the grammar these days is awful, what with all that text speak, you know my son actually put the word 'bin' in his English GCSE exam in stead of the word 'been' because of having used the slang version so many times it had become the normal spelling for him, and many others like him I should think.
The English language is such a beautiful thing too, when used correctly, and I would hope that Google and the other engines have some weighting in their formula's to take into account grammar and spelling when determining if a site is considered an authority on a subject or not.
Think I'll just right-click, Check Spelling on this comment now!
All the best, thanks for keeping us up to date, and up the rankings Jon.
Rog
People wish SEO were dead. Simply because it takes work to rank and remain there. Building good quality links means you need to work and people don't want to work. They wish they could just put up their sites and the visitors would come.
They forget about a marketing plan. The best SEO is done in conjunction with a marketing plan.
Giving something phenomenal and free away is a great way to grab people's attention and link to you.
Of course to make something phenomenal and free takes time and effort.
Search will never die because its so easy for the people that want the information. Simply put in your words and you've got the information that you asked for. What's easier than that?
It's sad that people go around saying stuff like SEO won't work anymore and misleading the newbies with bad information.
I'm glad you brought attention to this.
All the best,
Eren
Hi Jon,
I was very intrigued when your post title arrived in my inbox and very curious too. As a freelance writer I earn a lot of my living writing SEO optimized content and the thought that this was no longer needed was a bit of a worry. I am glad to have you explain and clear up this matter.
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
Alanna
The whole SEO is dead is non-sense. But it's a very effective title with scarcity for attention.
The truth is that Google was always caring about 'the small people' not 'professionals' when it comes to rankings, meaning it never expected your CMS to be perfect and your meta tags to etc. to be correct. They were always aware that the useful content is what they should value.
The is so much BS on SEO out there that you really have becareful. More than once in past we have changed our sites to suit the latest SEO advice only to lose traffic and page rank.
However you do have to test new methods that do produce traffic. 2.0 is currently helping increase traffic. However you will find that most of the world still uses the search engines exclusively.
Hi Jon
Great post. I agree with you that Web2.0 has it's place and creates a lot of traffic for many people but I don't see the search engines disappearing any time soon. After all this is where everybody gets information on the Internet!
Jon,
Great blog post. Appreciate your point of view. Looks like you are definitely a thinker. SEO dead? No, not really. I suggest looking at this question through the lenses of “follow the money and power”. Seems like speaking gloom and doom, purposefully talking down success to create a crisis, turmoil, and self-fulfilling prophecies is the “new” tool certain power and money manipulators use to control the people masses these days. So, why should SEO be any different? After all, SEO has demonstrated its success, its prowess as a technological tool to build entrepreneurs, small businesses, wealth building, and a template for future technological advancements. So, naturally SEO is now another success target in the gun sights of gloom and doomers bent on manipulating behaviors and thoughts for their own selfish money and power control purposes. Just like its predecessors, SEO may gradually adapt over time into better, more useful resources. So, metaphorically, SEO remains alive into the future before any transitioning to occur “giving birth to the next best thing”. Meanwhile, everyone should ignore the doomsayers trying to manipulate others for their own selfish power and money interests.
SEO is alive as long as it keeps paying my mortgage for me.
You are absolutely right. I hate Wikipedia. Yes they have great information, but all they do is stuff the results pages on Google with pages that are information only. If your looking to by something specific they are useless.
SEO is not dead. If Seo was dead, how would google rank any page, we would all be number 1?
I would say the statement "SEO is getting harder and harder each year" is more accurate. I have been an in-house part-time SEO since 2000 and each year it has been getting harder and harder to rank. Luckily, the tools for SEO's have been getting better and better each year, so in some sense it has stayed level.
I still don't believe that some people said that SEO is dead. Honestly I think they didn't notice that SEO cannot be dead. Most of people depend on search engine. If you look for something… will you search on facebook?? hah??
Jonathan,
Agreed! I hope others take this "seo is dead" hogwash seriously. They'll cut the competition in half for us who know better.
On the other hand, it makes me wonder if the article was intended to encourage people to give up on SEO so the author could clear a bit of the field for him/herself.
Reminds me of stock pick gurus who will recommend stocks to a large following so that they can later short the stock and make a killing themselves.
Jonathan
I saw a psuedo "guru" the other day telling everyone in a video that Web 2.0 sites were dead for getting SEO and traffic. It just killed me. Poppycock is the right word!
People just want to sell their product or angle and will seem abvle to say just about anything but the unvarnished truth.
Thanks for your article.
I agree with you. Just getting traffic from Web 2.0 sites isn't going to compare with people who are actually searching for information. SEO has been very important in the past and will continue to be.
they said SEO is dead because can't beat your pagerank, Jonathan.
I don't think that SEO will ever die. No online marketer will stop promoting on search engines until the search engines stop giving preference to their algorithms.
The person who said this does not know mean of SEO',,, SEO is not just about obtain rankings and high page rank, all it depends on sales, Its great to earn $ 5000+ from your online store by doing seo on your website. Don't you think so?
SEO? What is SEO? Just joking…
Only a though from me. If everyone uses SEO techniques, won't this kill SEO at all?
Keep doing the good work Jon, Cheers!
Jonathan.
Very informative and lengthy article, and worth its weight in Gold.
I guess there is frustration in the market now; and the reasons stem from the fact that, no matter what and how to try to optimize your page for the mighty G, they slap you with something contrary to all your efforts.
I mean, word has it that Social Media sites, Squidoo being one of them, have lost their ranking with Google, and no matter how you try to optimize your site using Social Media sites, your efforts will probably amount to nought.
I guess it makes sense…who wants a page on how to make stinky farts ranked # 1 on search engines when one's searching for how to stop snoring or something, all because one used the power of social media to link to their site?
This is also my number 1 frustration, trying to rank well for my keywords, and the answer, for me at least, seems in natural linking to similar content sites, as opposed to social media…it's just too time consuming.
As for the onpage factors, I wouldn't discount them completely, they form a foundation from which spiders index your page, and all the "votes" your site gets as links, well, let's just call that link juice!
Perhaps, as some of us keep searching for highly competitive keywords to rank highly for, the answer is actually in long and targeted phrases, however the number of searches each month!
Feelgood
I think SEO is dead to chose who do not wish to adapt and change. It is dead to the individual not SEO dead as an industry. I believe also that print is dead. Its growth is done. I think we would have seen that change if schools use things like the kindle 2 instead of books and children grow up on ebooks.
i disagree with the say that the seo dead maybe it's not enough for traffic and you need more ways
what important is not only the keywords but how much time or money you need to spend for the amount of traffic.
Jonathan
Excellent article .
The effort exerted to do SEO is not attractive to some, thus they would
rather wait for the rankings to drop on their lap or just rely on Web 2.0
sites to do it for them .Just like books going out of style 20 yrs back,
there are doom sayers today due to current economic crisis saying the same of SEO.
Interesting information Jon; but then again, onpage seo, which is what seo is all about, no longer matters in the eyes of Google no? and all the other search engines are following blindly with foot in mouth.
As for backlinks on some sites, we all know very well how webmasters delete links from posts with highly valuable info, don't we now?
Kind of makes one wonder what the whole point of backlinks is all about, and where one can get backlinks without having them stripped off the content…
SEO is NOT dead and it never will be..evebn if the on-page factors are no longer a big comcern, the off-page factors and links will always be the determining factor.
Jonathan, I do beleive you are the devil himself..but I still love you and all that you do.
By the way, what the {snip} is "poppycock" supposed to mean?
For a man who makes his living talking (& selling SEO) it is obvious that you would say SEO is not dead - or dying.
That you are correct is neither here nor there…..
Pretty pointless article about nothing - I normally so enjoy your stuff, get it together Jon!
Every year someone makes a comment about something being dead.
Is blog and ping dead? Some would say so, but I disagree. What about adsense, article marketing and directory submission. I say if you don't test for yourself you'll fall prey to the people who preach doom and gloom.
By the way none of the above is dead you just have to do somethings a little different . As the search engines evolve we need to see what is working and adapt.
Web 2.0 is a great source of free traffic, but what is the conversion rate on that kind of traffic? You won't know unless you test. All I can say is test, test and test some more.
Not an expert on the subject of SEO, but I have proof that it is still important to Google.
Over a year ago I built a site that was not indexed by Google, even with article submissions and link building. I had thought about pulling it down, but decided to try getting it indexed.
I used Internet Business Promoter (IBP) and did all the recommended SEO and within a week the site was indexed.
The site had many problems with SEO, and it took a little time to make the correction, but it proved to be time will spent.
Again, not an expert, but SEO is still important to Google.
Romie
Some will jump on this bandwagon and start another myth about SEO
SEO is a great way to generate huge amounts of organic traffic but it does take time and an awful lot of dedication put can be very rewarding when done right. theirs no better feeling watching your website climb up the pages
I have heard the same about how google is personalizing their search results for each user, that eventually SEO will no longer exist.
But to me, that makes no sense, how will they come up with the sites then to make up their top 10? What if they have never looked up that topic or even uses google before.
Great post! SEO is at its early phase, given 90% of business owners out there have no idea what search engine optimization is all about. If you have any doubt about this, just take a look of your local newspaper or magazine and pick a few websites that are advertised there. See how badly the web sites look or optimized. Still a lot of business owners still believe the old way of marketing, without realizing what search engine optimization can do. Some who know a bit about SEO, have a lot of misunderstanding. Only a fraction of the business owners are jumping on this fast-moving train. Those who take advantage of search engine optimization have seen the benefits. Those who haven't will either have to wake up or face extinction. SEO is just at the beginning.
What an article! Thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts. Really enjoy reading this article. Looking for more articles similar to this.
Just found your blog, I'll be following it with interest.
I hate to say I agree on all points but I do
I've fallen into the trap myself of neglecting seo but am back on the wagon and doing much better.
As usual Jon, you provide a great argument for the sake of SEO.
As I am a firm believer in SEO, and use it on a regular basis, I can personally attest to its effectivity, even in a time where web 2.0 is supposedly king.
Thanks again.
-Shaun Cartwright
I don't think SEO is dead nor do I think it ever will be, at least not for a long time. Search traffic is still the most targeted and profitable of all traffic. The traffic from web 2.0 sites doesn't even compare. Plus, all the search engines need a good way to rank sites and SEO is the best option out there.
new to your blog. Thanks for all the good info and ideas. This article made me really think about SEO and what direction I was going in.
thanks
Completely agree, I'm actually to the other extreme of the poster you mentioned, since I don't do web 2.0 at all, and focus entirely on SEO. I definitely feel that SEO is far more important.
SEO is not dead as long as we have google and yahoo. although some try to in place of it.
For the most usable search engines we need to use SEO, so IMHO SEO is not dead.
If you want to promote your site obviously we need quality SEO services. Anyway thank you for sharing your ideas.
Theres no way that seo is dead because I can optimize a site with just one or two links to it and get on the first page of google quite easily. Even easier with yahoo who rely more on meta tags
SEO is far from dead. This whole issue even making into the public discourse speaks to the over-saturation of amateur SEOs that don't know an anchor tag from a meta tag blogging incessantly about SEO-related topics in hopes of somehow winning the battle for internet's most competitive set of keywords. There is so much BS written by people whose SEO expertise is questionable at best floating around out there that it is inevitable that every now and again one of these crackpots says something provocative enough to garner undeserved attention such has happened here.
If the ultimate goal of SEO is No. 1 rankings, then that type of SEO is dead. The ultimate goal is conversion. Finding out what makes a shopper buy is a never ending game. So, in that sense, SEO will never die as long as its goal is on conversion rather than traffic.
Who said, SEO is Dead.. SEO is on of the growing industry in globe. Day by day big companies are planning to open their SEO department.
At this situation no one can say that SEO is Dead.
People who say SEO is dead are just ignorant. So much goes in to optimizing a site, much more than they are proposing. As mentioned, that's just better for us who are actually working on SEO.
yeah its good to post matter as per readers requirements. i agree with you. it will increase your popularity…
there is no way that seo is dead no matter what anyone says seo is the best way and the most effective way towards getting quality traffic to your website
Just found your blog today. Really like it - keep up the good work.Domain info more important than you think :-)Domain information such as DNS, age of domain and even the expiration date are used to distinguish between illegitimate and legitimate domains.Why are google doing this? Simply to get all the factors they can to get an internal "trust score".This "trust score" is used to eliminate "doorway" pages and spam in the search result.I'M not saying that it's working perfectly - but they are doing a pretty good job.
I don't see how anyone can think SEO is dead when literally millions of searches are made on the major search engines (Google, Yahoo, MSN, etc) on a daily basis.
Off course SEO isn't dead can't see how it ever could be. There will always be some way to optimise for search. Methods will obviously change and the guys who keep up will win.
Dave
I personally don't see that SEO will be dead anytime soon. There will always be search engines. I believe people will get more traffic from search engines than any other method. Web 2.0 is a fad. This method will come and go. Give it 2 more years and you will no longer hear about this. I know thats a stretch but, its true.
SEO is a must for all business in the internet, because the traffic from search engine is targeted buyer for the keyword. I Learn SEO lots from your report. And use 3WL too.
Great articles….thanks for sharing…
Hey Jon,
Nah. i dont think seo is dead. i think blackhats are starting to die
Respectfully,
Jeremy
SEO dead? that's a fine statement. I'm sure it's to grab the attention of bloggers, however it certainly isn't. It has progressed and evolved for sure. Remember the old days when the META keywords played a massive part in your SEO..
Agree. I think SEO will not die so easily..